tv Anderson Cooper 360 CNN December 2, 2011 1:00am-2:00am EST
probably ever done in my life. "ac 360" starts now. we begin tonight keeping them honest. with your elected representatives in washington with things if you do, you'll land in jail. not if you're a member in congress. hearings were held to stop legal legislative graft. on the outside, could be considered insider trading, shady real estate dealing, even bribery. he wrote a book about it, "60 minutes" did a stunning report on it. >> why does congress get a pass on this? >> it's the way the rules have been defined and the people who make the rules are the political class in washington and they've conveniently written them in such a way they don't apply to themselves. >> the buying and selling of stock by corporate insiders who have access to nonpublic information that could affect the stock price can be a criminal offense. just ask hedge fund manager raj, who got prison for congressional lawmakers have no doing it. corporate responsibilities and
have long been considered exempt from insider trading laws. even though they have daily access to nonpublic information and plenty of opportunities to trade on it. >> we know that during the healthcare debate, people were trading healthcare stocks. we know that during the financial crisis of 2008, they were getting out of the market before the rest of america knew what was going on. >> steve croft from "60 minutes" is going to join us in a moment. what was going on was gop congressmen like spencer back us of alabama and fellows of the house financial services committee were getting dire top secret briefings on the crisis from treasury secretary hank paulson. at the same time, according to "60 minutes", congressman backus started making stock bets that the market would go down. his office says he never trades on nonpublic information but the timing is suspicious. it's a bipartisan story here. take democrat nancy pelosi, the former house speaker.
in 2008 she took part in visa credit card company's invitation only, stock offering buying 5,000 shares just as legislation that would have hurt credit card companies like visa began its trip through the house. legislation that incidentally failed that time. ultimately, it passed through the senate. steve croft asked her about that. >> i wanted to ask you why you and your husband back in march of 2008 accepted and participated in a very large ipo deal from visa in a time that was major legislation affecting the credit card companies making its way through the house. did you consider that to be a conflict of interest? >> i don't know what your point is of your question. is there some point that you want to make with that? >> i guess what i'm asking is, do you think it's all right for a speaker to accept a very preferential favorable stock deal.
>> well, we didn't. >> you participated in the ipo. at the time you were speaker of the house. you don't think it was a conflict of interest or have the appearance of that? >> no. only appearance if you decide if you're going to elaborate on a false premise. it's not true and that's that. >> i don't understand what part is not true. >> yes, sir? that i would act upon an investment. >> house minority leader nancy pelosi talking to "60 minutes" steve croft. kate bolduan caught up to the congresswoman today. >> there's a hearing today in the senate taking a look at a couple bills to stop or prevent insider trading among members of congress. this, of course, follows a report which you well know you were one target of this report having to do with that question. would you support such legislation to prevent insider trading amongst members of congress? >> yes. >> is it important to push it
through? >> i think it's important. i think that -- i don't think that -- i would hope that it's not as necessary as the hoopde-doo that it seems. i think that we all disclose what we do and that's really important. everything that we do is a matter of public record. so it is in the public domain. so it's not insider. >> whoop dee doo. >> the law only demands disclosure once a year and it may not even prohibit doing the deals in the first place or require lawmakers to put it in a blind trust. former house speaker in the house with the details more than an eyebrow raising stock deals. former house speaker dennis hastert came into congress worth a few hundred thousand dollars. he left a multimillionaire. "60 minutes" revealed the earmark he got to run a highway past property that he owned. property he later sold and made $2 million on. speaker hastert is now a lobbyist.
his office said the land was rising in value before it bent through. brian baird who joins us shortly as well introduced a bill to disclose stock trades every 90 days and bar them from trading on nonpublic. guess what? it was three years before it got a hearing. here's ha looked like when the hearing finally happened. see all the empty chairs. no one was interested. listen carefully, you'll hear the sound of crickets chirping. lawmakers getting richer while the public approval shrinks into single digits in a recent poll. there were senate hearings on a pair of bills to address the issue. we're going to talk to melanie sloan who testified. first steve croft who is reporting prompted congress to act. how big a problem is it? i was stunned when i saw your report initially. >> i was stunned when i heard about it. >> you had no idea that congress didn't have to abide by insider trading rules? >> no. just in response to nancy
pelosi's comments about the whoop dee doo. if you or i did -- went out and bought stock in a company we were doing a story on or sold the stock, we would get a call from the s.e.c. probably within 48 hours. >> right. >> we'd be in danger of losing our jobs because both of our companies have ethics rules that would prohibit us from doing that. in congress, nothing. >> and the idea that they could be inside hearings and hearing about dire financial information back in 2008 about the stock markets, this is going to tank in a few days, the bubble is bursting and to then short the market so that you will actually profit off the collapse is pretty -- that's stunning. >> one of the most interesting examples is you can be on a healthcare committee, you can have -- learn in advance months in advance the certain drug is
going to be disapproved for coverage or for medicare. >> which would have a devastating impact on that company. >> on the drug company and nothing to prohibit you from trading on that. members of congress in healthcare committees did. >> in your report it was amazing because you went around like sort of traipsing around trying to ask congress if they knew about this. if they knew about the stock act, the effort to prevent this from happening. and everyone is like, oh, no, never heard of it. sounds like a great idea. never heard of it. >> now, everybody is jumping on the bandwagon. i'm glad to see. this is a bill that didn't draw flies. now it has 138 co-sponsors. everybody wants it now. a few weeks ago -- the bill has been around for years >> the idea too of congress members -- members of congress doing shady land deals as well. buying land in an area where lo and behold they get an earmark for a highway that goes through that area or close to the area and their land is suddenly worth a lot more. >> yeah, it happens all the
time. judge greg from new hampshire was involved in -- he got an earmark to buy an old air force base or that was closed down. he was involved in development around it and his brother was one of the people that was a major involvement in it. and the ethics committee, i think, looked at it and said his defense was, look, as long as my constituents benefit from this earmark, then it's perfectly legal for me to do this. as long as somebody else benefits. doesn't matter -- i can benefit too. >> and when you were trying to get members of congress to actually sit down for interviews, speaker boehner, nancy pelosi, nobody would do it? >> no. none of them even called us back. they had people call from their spokesman call and give us a written statement. >> right. that's when you ended up at the press conferences asking in public forums trying to get an
answer. >> yes, yes. >> how often -- it's pretty remarkable that -- when you get a call from steve croft of "60 minutes", you would expect that phone call to be returned. >> we usually do. >> i want to bring in melanie sloan into the conversation. she's executive director in washington. i want to bring congressman brian baird who years ago tried to get the ethics bill ball rolling without much luck. congressman, is this another example members of congress playing by a different set of rules from everyone else? >> i'm afraid it is. when i tried to raise this with people, some thought it applied. others said it would be inconvenient, the implication being that if the kind of rules that apply to other people applied to us, that would be inconvenient. i don't agree with that logic, but it seemed to block the legislation from moving for far too long. >> melanie, after you testified today, did you get the sense that passing the stock act is a
priority for congress? >> i definitely got the sense it was a priority for chairman lieberman and ranking member susan collins. they were going to aim to have a markup on the bill by december 15th. but they recognize there were complications to it and it wasn't as simple as passing the legislation in front of them. they need to work on it a little. they had a bunch of securities experts who they'll be talking to and they want it out of their committee by the end of the year. >> it's not just, steve, members of congress, and members of the staff who profit. you talk about political intelligence also. again, i never heard of it. what is that? >> it is essentially as brian baird told us in the "60 minutes" piece, a business model successful business model in washington that would be a criminal enterprise anyplace else. it involves political firms usually with former staffers and congressmen and senators on their staff going around, getting nonpublic information
and then selling it to clients. which we don't really know very much about the clients other than we know that some hedge funds are involved in it. >> congressman, how does that work? basically, it's like intelligence operatives basically talking to former friends, what's the scuttlebutt about this bill or that bill? >> well, the key is, you know, if it's public information from a hearing, that's okay. but the real value comes from the nonpublic information and that's the intelligence part of it. you're trying to get information before the other guy does and again in the corporate world, if it's from inside the company and not public, it's illegal. in congress it's incredibly valuable and not clearly legal. that's how the intel firms work. they're not happy with my efforts to say you have to disclose your clients so we can see who is trading on this information. >> melanie, does the current bill address these firms at all? >> the current bill does address that. that wasn't discussed at the hearing today. they may well put that question off to another day because it
raises other issues that they haven't explored yet and they don't seem in as big a rush to deal with that as they are with insider trading things. it's in large part because of the "60 minutes" story and the occupy wall street movement and the incredibly low regard in which most americans are holding congress these days. 46% of americans believe that congress is corrupt. >> and congressman, when you introduced the stock act and you had a handful of co-sponsors, had a difficult time getting any hearings. now as steve pointed out, the bill has over a hundred co-sponsors and counting -- do you feel vindicated? >> well, i won't until we solve the problem. the fact that we have over a hundred co-sponsors. we still need 435. i think every member of congress ought to say this is wrong and fix it. whether or not they vote for it, we have to hold -- than we impose on the rest of the public is not going to fly politically or as good policy.
>> i can't imagine steve, any member of congress publicly disagreeing with this idea. >> i think it has to pass and everybody has to sign it otherwise they'll be vulnerable to these kinds of questions in november elections next year. >> we should call up every member of congress and ask them where they stand and get them on the record as we've done in other things. maybe we'll do that. thanks, steve croft, melanie sloan, congressman brian baird, appreciate your time, sir. let us know what you think on facebook, twitter, i'll be tweeting tonight. a pharmacy full of drugs being prescribed to young kids. we're not just talking ritalin, two drugs, three drugs. we're talking five drugs combinations of mind altering medications. we're talking about a report, and perspectives from dr. sanjay gupta. ungodly discipline, our series continues looking at the disciplining of kids in schools.
a former assistant principal who lobbies for corporal punishment in parochial schools is accused of paddling his former students. those students say they will never forget it. >> whack, whack. i would never cry and the man hated that i wouldn't cry. this time he got me to cry. but -- i said this guy isn't going to stop. >> our gary tuchman investigates ahead on the program. shouldn't n in an amazing way? ♪ the lexus december to remember sales event is here, but only for a limited time. see your lexus dealer. congratulations. congratulations. today, the city of charlotte can use verizon technology to inspire businesses to conserve energy and monitor costs. making communities greener... congratulations. ... and buildings as valuable to the bottom line... whoa ! ... as the people inside them. congratulations.
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keeping them honest. on kids and mind altering drugs. psychiatric medications prescribed by doctors and given in doses that are mind blowing to society's vulnerable kids. powerful tranquilizers and sedatives, all the familiar brands, prozac, ambien, zoloft. with the familiar side effects given to kids, sometimes infants. it's been documented in a new report from the government accountability office, the gao which looked at foster kids and other children in five states. what it found is that foster kids were anywhere from two four times more likely to be prescribed psychotropic drugs. found more than 20,000 kids taking more than the maximum recommended dosages.
higher dosages than recommended. 1700 kids in both groups were taking five or more different drugs at the same time. five mind altering drugs or more at once. according to the report, more than 4,000 infants were on psychotropic drugs. kids a-year-old or younger given drugs that no child should actually take. the report points out that many of the foster kids have greater mental health needs because of what they've been through in life. yet, the report warns there are potentially at higher risk for health problems "according to gao's experts, no evidence support the use of five or more psychotropic drugs in adults or children." thousands of kids in or out of foster care on such combinations. many of the drugs are nightmarishly hard to quit as we found. [ screaming ]
>> those were kids going through withdrawal. the question is, are we overmedicating kids, in particular the most vulnerable of kids and if so, why? digging deeper, sanjay gupta, the court special appointed -- the number of kids being medicated seems high. in some cases kids run five or more drugs at one time and at levels exceeding fda regulations. what do you make of it? >> first of all, there's not a lot of data or guidelines and using some of these medications in children that young. so it's striking just from that regard alone. flying a little bit blind and then as you read, anderson, sometimes five or even more of the medications being used in the same child, it was pretty striking. a lot of my colleagues and i
were talking about this today that the concern of some of the foster children have been neglected, have been abused may need some sort of therapy but using this many medications, i think, was concerning for everybody. also, the longer term effect an on the brain. something i'm interested in. we just don't know. a lot of the medications, anderson, are tested in adults first. a lot of the data in terms of safety comes out of adult data. it's hard to apply some of that to children. there can be long-term effects on the brain and some of the medications cause significant weight gain. some of the medications can double even triple the rigs risk of a child developing diabetes down the road. you know, i think there's lots of reasons to be concerned. with one thing i tell you quick. here's what michael says. we talk to others who say in the general population, we're seeing the study now. but in the general population, nonmedicated children, children not in foster care, the numbers if you sat down and analyzed them would also likely be
strikingly high. >> michael, you say this is one of the biggest concerns that you're hearing from people working with foster kids. i mean, are kids in the system being given drugs that they don't need? because that's what it seems like in this report. >> it really feels like that. the numbers that you read are awful. when you hear the stories, the suffering that kids are going through when they have five. but they're even more medications some kids have. there are kids with 12. they describe being like zombies and the suffering they go through is terrible. we feel strongly that this is a serious issue and it needs to be changed. >> i mean, i can understand, michael, kids who are in the foster care system may be obviously they're dealing with issues that come from different backgrounds and they might have a higher incidence of needing medication. but the combinations, the high numbers of combinations beyond what's actually effective, that may be counter active and also
the age of some of the kids, giving children under the age of one-year-old some of these medications, this is as sanjay was saying, uncharted territory. >> i can't imagine giving infants these drugs. but on the other hand, we've heard of toddlers, toddlers who have been placed in hospitals for behavior problems and then they're put on medications. i'm not a physician, but i can't believe that we can't do better, can't provide better care, better thoughtful diagnosis when we do need to use these drugs. to me, this is one of the big issues is this is a system that is chronically short of time for kids. if you're going to be using psychotropic medications, you have to do it carefully. >> sanjay, the gao reporter is saying there's no evidence about the efficacy of using five or more of these drugs. >> right. and that's part of the problem. that data, we looked hard for it today in terms of using that many drugs, isn't readily available in adults even. in whom the drugs have been
tested. even less so in children. you mentioned, anderson, about children under the age of one. that completely blew me away when i read that. >> 4,000 infants under the age of one are being given medication. >> i don't even know how they're diagnosing a problem. so we made calls on this trying to figure out what was going on. as you might expect, if you try and dig a little deeper, a child might be getting medications because they're colicky, crying, difficult to care for in some way in that setting. i have some of the numbers in front of me. a lot of the medications being prescribed in children that young were antihistamine medications. anti-anxiety medications but like benadryl for example, which aren't recommended in children under two in the first place. they give this medication to try and put these kids to sleep. they're doing it in the high numbers that you just mentioned. >> michael, what needs to be
done to fix the situation? >> i think at least four things have to be done. one is in every state there ought to be court review of the use of psychotropic medications on every one of these kids. the other one is there has to be informed consent for young people who are capable of giving it and that is not consistent across the states. we also need more mental healthcare providers, child psychiatrists and psychologists and i would propose we look at loan modifications and loan forgiveness for them if they're willing to treat foster youth. every one of these kids needs an advocate. we really need to make sure that somebody is watching. if things aren't going right, somebody raises the alarm and says something is wrong for every one of these kids we need that. >> sounds like all good advice. michael, appreciate your time and expertise, sanjay as well. >> thanks, anderson. >> shocking report. still ahead, a new look at an apparently deadly hazing incident. we have the 911 call made after robert champion collapsed on the
team bus after a football game. we'll hear from the former band director who was fired because officials say he didn't stop hazing in his marching band. also ahead tonight, our series continues, ungodly discipline in school. he's accused of spanking his students. >> the fist one i started crying. i just remember counting as i pretty much went into a private place in my mind so i didn't have to feel anything. and it kept going and it kept going and it kept going. i said, this guy is not going to stop. he's going to kill me. [ woman ] my boyfriend and i were going on vacation, so i used my citi thank you card to pick up some accessories. a new belt. some nylons. and what girl wouldn't need new shoes? we talked about getting a diamond. but with all the thank you points i've been earning...
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tonight disturbing details about the death of robert champion, a drum major at florida a&m university who died in a parking lot after performing at a football game. investigators have said that hazing was involved. they've given no other details. today authorities released a 911 call made from that parking lot after champion collapsed. we're going to play it in a moment. the school expelled four students involved in the incident. the band director fired shortly after the he died is firing back at the school. he insists he's been warning school officials for years about dangerous hazing in the band. >> one thing about this entire event, i have a zero tolerance for hazing. and the record documents that i
have provided leadership, proper leadership and guidance as well as bringing attention to the fact that we do have a zero tolerance for hazing in the band and in the university. >> the medical examiner has still not reported a cause of death for robert champion who was 26 years old. but the 911 call gives new details about his final moments. david mattingly joins me now. let's listen to a portion of the call for help. >> are you with the person right now? >> well, i'm outside the bus so i can hear you. >> okay. so he's inside the bus? >> yes, he's inside the bus. >> okay. how old is he had. >> he is 25. >> okay. is he awake? >> he wasn't responding. we thought he was breathing, he was making noises, but i don't even know if he's breathing now. >> okay. is he awake do you know? >> his eyes are open. he's not responding. >> okay. but is he breathing? >> i have no idea. i cannot tell you that. >> okay.
>> he just threw up. >> he just threw up. >> yeah. >> like i said, i have help on the way. i want you to keep -- was he like shaking or anything like that prior to this? >> no. he wasn't shaking. >> you interviewed robert champion's parents after his death. what we're hearing on the tapes, is that consistent with what they say happened that night? >> yes, it is consistent but that only goes so far. there's no clear cause of death released. the sheriff has said that hazing was involved. we don't know to what extent. when i talked to his parents, they did confirm that they talked to the doctors fighting to save their son's life that night. i asked them, what did the doctors tell you in did they see any signs of injuries or anything that contributed to the death? on the advice of their attorney, they're not answering that question. they want their own answers, they want to root out what they call this culture of hazing that they believe is going on at this
university as well as the culture of silence they say that goes along with it. so when we heard the 911 tapes, it's the first sign that we've seen of anything that's been going on behind the scenes with this. we heard in this 911 tape how robert champion's friends, his fellow band members were rushing to his aid and doing everything they possibly could, quite possibly in his final moments of life. listen. >> is he putting him on his back? >> excuse me? >> is he flat on his back? >> yeah. we're trying to get him on his back now. >> okay. >> all right. cool. he is flat. he is flat on his back. >> he is? okay. i want you to kneel next to him and look in his mouth for food or vomit. >> yes. it's vomit. >> there is vomit in his mouth? >> yes. >> okay.
then i want you to turn his head to the side and clean out his mouth and his nose. >> can you hear me? >> what? >> sir, can you hear me? >> did the university's -- obviously you said they fired the band director. the governor is looking for more action. >> governor rick scott getting more involved as the days go by. he originally said the state needs to investigate this and he's calling on a state investigation. apparently they are not happy with just the university itself investigating this incident. he's also now calling on all universities in the state of florida to re-examine their hazing policies to make sure everyone knows that this is a practice that is absolutely condemned. well, everything we're hearing out of florida a&m is that, as you heard the band director say, he was very aggressive in trying to stop this. he holds workshops every year. he makes sure that the students know not only is it illegal in the state of florida to be
involved in hazing, but it's something that could get you kicked out of the band. in the weeks leading up to this incident, he actually kicked almost 30 members of this band out for hazing. so he's saying there wasn't enough follow-up higher up the chain at this university to make sure that this was rooted out. this is something that's going to be obviously worked out in the courts as we go along. egyptians voted on monday and egyptians voted on monday and tuesday for the first time since president hosni mubarak was forced out of power on february.
on this world aids day, president obama announced a new $50 million and the aids virus was first discovered 30 years ago. more than 600,000 americans have died from it. also tonight, president obama and the first family helped to light the national christmas tree in washington. this was the 89th tree lighting ceremony. new moms, if you named your baby girl sophia, that tops the survey of the top baby girls for 2011. for boys, the top baby name, aiden, jackson, mason, liam, and ava. and check this out from the "today" show. >> and you say there's ann der son cooper effect? >> there is. anderson cooper is the baby man of the year. this is the first time that we've seen the first name and last name rising on the list.
anderson is up 100 on the list. >> and do they have gray hair? >> very, very blond hair. >> and cooper as well. >> which may be bradley cooper. there may be something going on there. >> no, it's not bradley cooper. >> come on, what are you, nuts? >> please, who is bradley cooper? >> never met him at the family reunion. wow. >> love the hair. >> and still, though, there's this -- yes, but it's climbed up the list but it's still like number 600 or something on the list. >> oh, no, come on. it's anderson cooper effect. a christian school in wisconsin, spanking is in the name of god. adults are angry and they are speaking out. >> i was in pain and in addition to it it was humiliation because
once the spanking was over, i don't know what hurt worse, the spanking or going back to class and everybody knowing that just happened to you. also, is jerry sandusky getting ready to make a plea deal? what are the lawyers saying? the answer to that when we come back. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 let's talk about fees. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 there are atm fees. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 account service fees. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 and the most dreaded fees of all, hidden fees. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 at charles schwab, you won't pay fees on top of fees. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 no monthly account service fees. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 no hidden fees. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 and we rebate every atm fee. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 so talk to chuck tdd# 1-800-345-2550 because when it comes to talking, there is no fee. there's a moment where everything comes together. where there's magic. and you now understand what nature's been hiding.
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crime and punishment tonight, over the last couple months, we've been reporting on parents who spank their kids in the name of god, often using implements like rods or rulers. it's a story we first called ungodly discipline. these parents believe the bible tells them it's their duty to spank their kids with paddles or
objects. the leaders have preserved the right to hit children at schools. tonight, gary tuchman investigates a group called wisconsin capital watch and lobbied the lawmakers in the state for years on this issue and was an assistant principal at a school in wisconsin where some students remember him all too well. here's gary tuchman's report. >> he picked up the board and it's a rather thick wooden board. it has holes drilled in it. and i got five swats pretty hard with it. >> amy cranke is 39 years old, a wife and mother. but she vividly remembers what happened to her in elementary school. what she calls beatings in the name of god. >> i cried every time i had to go in there. >> doug mcnell said he was hit about the by the same man as amy. >> show me the force that was used with the paddle. >> it was up against the wall.
my body was just -- the chair was up against the wall. if it wasn't, i would have fallen over. that's why it was like that. >> scott mcnell is doug's brother. >> it hurt like anything you can ever imagine. >> nancy mcnell is their mother. >> it was huge, long, made out of oak with a handle on it. and it holes drilled in it to cut the wind resistance so you could get the hardest impact. >> what was the name of the assistant principal who hit your son? >> marvin munyon. >> it's nice to have you here. >> this is him. making an appearance on a christian tv station in wisconsin. >> back in the 1980s, he was an assistant principal at the calvary baptist school in watertown, wisconsin. proponents of spanking say it comes from the urging of of the bible not to spare the rod. their translation, children should be physically punished. marvin munyon left in 1986 but
before and after he was an influential state lobbyist. one of his main interests? protecting the right to spank students in wisconsin's private schools. he's been successful at that, it's still allowed. but corporal punishment is banned in the public schools in wisconsin. just a few months ago, he talked about legislation which would increase the number of school staff obliged to tell police about suspected abuse. >> every employee in the school system would be required to be mandatory reporters of child abuse and neglect. >> it's abuse that several former students are saying they suffered at the hands of munyon. they said they were beaten, not just spanked. >> i was in pain and in addition it was humiliation. i knew that once the spanking was over, i don't know which hurt worse, the spanking or going pack to class and having everyone look at you and know that that's what just happened to you. >> you start whack, whack. i would never cry and the man hated that i wouldn't cry. this time he got me to cry.
the fist swat, i said this guy isn't going to stop. i was always good at math. my dad was a math teacher. i was counting. i started crying and i remember counting as i pretty much went into a private place in my mind so i didn't have to feel anything. and i kept going and it kept going. i said this guy is not going to stop. he's going to kill me. it stopped at 53. >> he was crying and i said who spanked you. he said mr. munyon and he said my butt is pleading. he was old enough that i wasn't going to pull his pants down but i looked. i looked at the upper part of his buttocks. there was strike marks with little beads of blood on it. >> marvin munyon lives in this house, minutes away from calvary baptist. i've talked to him on the phone
several times. i requested an on camera interview with him. first he said yes, then he later changed his mind and said no and then maybe. after that he said i need to talk to my lawyer. finally he stopped answering my calls. the pastor who leads the church wasn't in charge when munyon was there but regards him as a friend. >> do you think before you came to this institution that on some occasions there was abuse by the teachers? >> no, i don't. >> pastor robert loggins says munyon acknowledged he carried out corporal punishment but lawfully without marks or bruises. the pastor no longer allows it at the school. instead, he leaves it up to the parents at home. >> if he used a paddle with holes in it to hit children, would that have been abusive? >> i really don't know. i am not sure. >> so you're not sure because you're feeling like you don't want to criticize marvin munyon or you don't know if that's
abuse or not? >> i don't know if that's abuse or not. i know the teachers used it in the public schools. i never looked at it as abuse. >> if a teacher did that today in our school. >> we wouldn't allow them. >> would you consider it abusive today? >> i probably would use. >> nancy worked at the school with her husband. she felt if she didn't let her children get hit. >> i would not be right with god and my kids wouldn't be right with god. i was indoctrinated with this. >> something she feels terrible about now. her son doug has serious health problems. he's an alcoholic and considers himself a broken man. he says he's never been able to recover from his discipline from marvin munyon. >> you were only a child and here you are at the age of 41 and you're still reliving it. >> it doesn't go away. it will never go away.
>> so munyon declined to go on camera with you. during the number of phone conversations you had, did he say anything about the accusations? >> what's interesting, he said initially he would go on camera with me and admitted that he spanked students when he was an administrator at the school. when i called him back to set up the exact date, then he was much less interested in talking to me and frankly, i think it's because he saw some of our coverage. he got very paranoid about this, about this interview while i was talking to him on the phone. at one point he said are you recording this? i said no. i just want your viewpoint. he did not want to talk to me on camera or on the record about the accusations. we gave him lots of opportunities to talk to us. >> gary, appreciate it. thanks very much. up next, will former penn state coach jerry sandusky take a plea deal or not? his lawyer speaks out. herman cain talks about what his wife knew about his connection to an atlanta woman who claims she had a 13-year affair with
him. did his wife actually know about it? find out, ahead. aaron, you're all set. great, thanks. mike, thanks for doing that discount double check. you saved us hundreds. what was that? the discount double check? it's when we comb through your policies and make sure that you're getting all the discounts you deserve. no, i get that part, but you guys are doing my move. the discount double check move? that's my touchdown dance. so you're a dancer? no, i'm a quarterback. oh, a quarterback. mrr. i'm a robot. mm, mm. ee, er, ee, er. get out of here. [ male announcer ] aaron rodgers got his. how about you? rodgers! discount double check!
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he told them, yes, he gave money on a regular basis to ginger white without telling his wife. ginger white claims she had a 13-year affair with her and he says that it was a friendship and nothing more. and how about this, a copy of action comics where superman made his debut back in 1938. the comic sold at an online auction for $2.61 million. the seller, actor nick cage. he bought it 14 years ago for $150,000. that is the latest. now back to anderson. ahead at 11:00, erin, what is up? >> well, supercommittee 2. in all seriousness, joe lieberman coming out to talk about his plan to go for grand bargain and to do it before the election.
we're going to get the bottom line on what he's about to propose and how it could make a big difference. and then we're going to talk to billionaire richard branson, known for space flights and submarines and virgin planes around the world. he comes out front to talk about the world. you will get to see him in a wedding gown. yeah. uh-huh. that's richard branson. coming "outfront" tonight. see you soon. >> erin, thank you. achieving internet fame for all the wrong reasons and they wind up on "the ridiculist," next. whoa. whoa. how do you top great vacations?
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time now for the "ridiculist." i'm talking about two specific guys and one specific event that went down in the woodlands north of houston. it was thanksgiving day and a guy name jared was picking up a thur key when he noticed two guys revving up their kor vets. >> little kid crossing the street. let's see how stupid these guys are.
and, yep, knew that was coming. >> and that, ladies and gentlemen, is what you call car ma with a c, can you imagine how they explain this to their insurance companies? two beautiful cars wrecked? and for what? a drag race on thanksgiving day way to go, guys. way to go. according to the montgomery county police report, one of them said that his leg hurt and that he was dizzy. i don't know. i think he meant ditzy. he was also driving with a suspended license. the guy with the camera, posted this youtube, two turkeys on thanksgiving wrecking their corvettes in the woodlands. arrest warrants have been issued for both of the drivers. jared breaks it down to the houston ktrk. >> these were adults.
and to act this way, to me, is irresponsible. >> and incredibly idiotic. >> maybe this will help teach somebody a lesson if these guys actually face a consequence, i remember what happened to those guys on youtube. maybe it will save lives. >> saving lives, one youtube video at a i am too. i love it. >> you must obey the proper speed limits. a car is not a toy. so the moral of the story is, unless it's 1985 and your name is not john cusak, please not race your car. that, my friends is what we call "the ridiculist."